Looking at making it a main monitor on a dual setup with my 19" standard.

I was looking at this

i’ve had this model for awhile and i love it

I have this one sitting next to my 22" Ultrasharp E2208WFP and the only disadvantage to the 228WFP is the stand.

And now I’ll sit here and wait for Potroast to come in and diss dell…

in 3…

2…

1…

.

i think hes temp. banned….not sure though. just havent seen him in awhile bashing things…
I used to have the Acer AL2216wbd, but sold it to get the Samsung 226bw. The Acer is a decent monitor, but should pay the extra for the Samsung.

I also have a Samsung 906bw (19" WS) set up as my secondary monitor for dual setup.
Have two 19" Samsungs at the office, and a 24" at home. Love ‘em.

Yeah, he is, last week and this week I think.

The silence is deafening, isn’t it? It shouldn’t be so remarkable that one single person is gone, but it is.
I use both of these ViewSonic models with great success – the first one I use as a TV also…
VG2230wm
VA2226w
A monitor you can watch TV on – does that mean you can use it as a TV card too, and view TV in your OS?

No, some of them have RCA in on them – not sure if they have coax – but it’s direct to the Monitor and not through/to your computer.

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I could use some larger drives soon this is good news for me….

EDIT: So apparently if I just search for "1.5TB Seagate" I get a bunch more results than searching for the part number. Anyway, from the Seagate press release they stated "Shipments of the Barracuda 7200.11 1.5TB are set to begin August 2008"

this is good news for me, my 400gb drive for video in my server is filling up. this means that prices for terabyte drives will drop

Samsung F1s are already down to $150. Pretty damn cheap if you ask me.
every time i see anything about terrabytes it makes me think back to microsoft’s terrabyte server back in the day. it use to be such a big deal
anyone heard anything about the release dates of the 74GB/150GB WD Velociraptors?

I’m waiting on those. The OCZ SSD Core Series still ain’t worth it, imo.
too much money and heat for very little speed gain — and the shittiest of the shit in terms of capacity. Better off with some 32MB cache seagate drives. RAID 3/5 that bitch if you want performance.

The 150GB VR is listed on NCIX. Says it should be in stock within a few weeks. I don’t see why they would even make a 74GB VR and personally I don’t think they will. They will have to create a new platter, and this doesn’t make sense for one drive. I am in the same boat though. I’ve thought long and hard about the OCZ Core, but it just doesn’t perform all that well yet. I just want a small good performing boot drive.

yeah, I too doubt the 74GB VR. maybe it’s just rumors.

just checked NCIX.
around $200??

i’d probably still hit it
the 300GB VR is just too big for my OS drive.

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Ideas?
better off with a scan converter and bypass the computer entirely. some monitors have tuners built-in.
Yea no tuner built in. I don’t mind bypassing the computer at all – just looking to use this to replace my 24" Sony TV. What’s a good scan converter for HD?

It’d be an HDTV cable box, coax cable, or Wii/Xbox/etc. Like I said, basically just looking to use the panel as a replacement for my 24" TV.
How about an Hauppauge HD-PVR? AFAIK it should work with MythTV and a Mac.

&

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Get the best motherboard you can afford, and buy the largest RAM sticks it can hold — you don’t need to max out the RAM or CPU right now, but make sure you don’t need to throw anything away when you upgrade it later on.

Put it in a steel case. Plastic and aluminum are fine as a faceplate, but they’re not strong enough to protect the computer in case it gets smacked.
buying components today to upgrade tomorrow is retarded.
spend 5 minutes to read the forum. I already posted a machine spec’d to meet your needs a few days ago.

Not if you can’t afford to max out the machine in one shot — it’s better than buying cheap parts and then throwing them all away in a couple of years. Three years from now, a good older motherboard upgraded with the best CPU it can hold and the most RAM it can hold will run just fine compared to newer mid-level machines.

not really.

Buying low end means you replace much more often.

Buying high end is financially silly since it depreciates so quickly (both financially and it terms of "what’s hot".

Buying solid mid-range components maximizes lifespan of the machine and minimizes financial investment.

Build a SOLID machine today, use it a few years, and toss it away and build another.

Buying a few high-end components, wasting your budget, and filling the rest of the box with crap is going to lead to problems now, and isn’t gonna help worth a fuck later on.

Case in point:

Theoretically if you had a $400 budget for cpu/mem/mobo 3 years ago you could get a normal $100 mobo, spend $100 on memory, and get a $200 cpu. It would be a solid system. Of course now, you’d have to replace it if you want a new machine… The cpu sockets have changed for AMD and although the socket is the same for intel, none of the chipsets of that era support current-gen stuff. The memory has also changed from DDR to DDR2. And you guessed it: not compatible.

Take the same budget and waste $250 on the high-end mobo and you still need $100 on memory (or more) and you only have $50 left for a shitty cpu. Say you go OVER budget by $100 and you still only get a $150 cpu. And guess what? You STILL have to throw it all away!

Get a SOLID machine today, accept the fact that technology changes like I change my underwear, and that you WILL throw it away in a few years.

I say it again: Buying hardware today with intent to "upgrade" it tomorrow is RETARDED.

Three years ago’s super-high-end $250 mobo doesn’t support the cpu’s of today.

Not everyone has the kinda of budget to build a supercomputer…
Anyways I priced this out the other night.
Q9450 $330
Evga 8800GT Superclocked $156 (ya ya I can OC it myself, but it’s only $5 more than the "regular" one)
G. Skill 2×2GB DDR2 1066 $110
Lian Li PC7B. $100.

Not sure on the mobo or PSU. probably something 650W+ modular.
Will probably get a 500GB+ Barracuda or one of those Samsung F1 drives.

I’m looking for good mid-level stuff. Not crap or super high end shit.
Like I said, I’ve been out of the whole computer thing for like a year. I don’t know what’s a good setup is anymore.

if you know how to oc, you save $$ by getting a Q6600 instead. It’s 9X multiplier will give you higher clocks than the Q9450’s 8X multi.
get a Radeon 4850
DDR2-800 is more than enough, DDR2-1066 if you want to reach higher clocks
Well it’s for my brother who does moderate gaming, but nothing to intensive. I don’t want to OC anything. I just want it running cool and quiet.

very well said

mad much kudos

Q9450 is Penryn. Q6600 is Conroe.

so?

stock
Q9450 = 333FSB x 8 multi = 2.6GHz
Q6600 = 266FSB x 9 multi = 2.4GHz

if he managed say a 400FSB overclock

Q9450 = 400FSB x 8 multi = 3.2GHz
Q6600 = 400FSB x 9 multi = 3.6GHz

If there’s anything you should have learned from Intel vs AMD, is that clock speed doesn’t mean shit.

First of hall, penryn has better performance per clock than conroe.
Second of all, it has much less power usage, which means less heat, which means smaller electricity bills, in both power draw on the CPU, and cooling costs. This also means higher FSB.

picard.jpg

lulz, since when did Penryn become a new architecture?

it’s penryn and conroe, same Core 2 architecture.
a 2.6GHz Conroe will outperform a 3GHz Pentium D because that belongs to the old arch. same reason why you can’t directly compare AMD’s K8 to K10.

but in this case, same architecture, their clocks are very close.
I’m not saying 3GHz Conroe = 3GHz Penryn, more like 3.2GHz Conroe = 3GHz Penryn more or less.

Penryn is a die shrink, SSE4, larger L2 caches on some, an improved divider, and cpu factory fsb.
these diffs translates to 0%-15% advantage over Conroe depending on the app,… but its freakin 69% more expensive.
A cheaper and faster clocked Conroe will compensate for that diff.

less power usage? less heat? wut?
a Q6600 SLACR consumes 95W and a thermal spec of 71C
same as the Q9450

stock vs stock, they are

overlocking kind of changes things

no problems with the (wolfdales) dual cores (E8400, E8500, etc). those have 9X, 9.5X multipliers.

the old Kentsfields (Q6600, Q6700) have 9X, 10X, and the unlocked Extreme version
the Yorkfields (Q9300, Q9450, etc) have 7.5X, 8X, 8.5X, and the unlocked Extreme version
as you can see, the new quads have lower multipliers
note that the extreme versions are expensive shit

both overclock very well, but the higher the multi, the better. it all depends on you other components too (mobo, ram).
if the architecture is different, this won’t mean shit.
as i’ve said above, they are in the same Core 2 architecture family with a few differences.
and then there’s price.

if you don’t overclock, what I said won’t matter, so get the Q9450 if you can afford it.

lawl. 45nm vs 65nm means a ~50mm difference in die size. The TPM difference on the two is huge, real world tests have shown that, regardless of the conservative intel specs.
Q9450

Q6600

About HALF the power consumption for the same task, and a 11C difference in core temps. 122F vs 141.8F

and that’s worth the 69% price difference? hell no
case in point,… too much money for so little gain

Except for the fact that, you know, the 9450 can hit 500FSB, which is more than even a moderate overclocker will use.

The 9450 outperforms the 6600, period. Whether or not it’s worth the price difference is up to him.

so does the Q6600

and how many mobos can be stable at 500 FSB 24/7?
most P35, P45, X38, X48 has an FSB wall of 470, 480 if you are lucky.
and most of them doesn’t get past 450

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I’m going to go on newegg and look at the reviews for all the shit in it, though.
ugly crap case, check.
generic psu, check.
crap mobo, check.
meh hdd, check.
cheap optical route, check.
realtek audio, check.
crap warranty, check.

walk away.

Do you know of any good ones?
go to a reputable computer shop and have them build you one… or someone that knows what they’re doing and use newegg.
2x $27 – LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA
1x $45 – CoolerMaster Case
1x $85 – Seagate 500GB 7200RPM 32M SATA-II
1x $155 – ATi Radeon HD4850 512MB PCI-Ex16 HDCP
1x $80 – Corsair 550W PSU
2x $20 – OC Z 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 667MHz
1x $100 – Intel DP35DPM ATX
1x $195 – Intel Q6600 LGA-775
1x $110 – Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium w/SP1
=======
$864

have someone that knows what they’re doing build it.

You’d take the ATI over an 8800?

how much did you know about computers before you tried to build one yourself (hardware wise)?

and did you use any form of static shock protection when you worked on it?

I knew the parts I needed and how to plug them in.

And none and I built it on carpet. Not too smart in retrospect.

i don’t generally wear anti-static straps or anything like that. A couple days ago I even worked in my case while laying on the carpet under my desk. I haven’t damaged anything in about 6 years from static.

yes.
And where do you see that card for 155?

Edit: Oh, the mail-in rebate.

skip the vista and get XP

I have XP on my laptop, so I guess I could just get Vista.

don’t

that’s why it died then

sorry for laughing, but you likely fried every component in there before you turned it on for the first time.

Well I’m still open to opinions

you do realize most ESD damage doesn’t kill the component outright, it degrades it and reduces the lifespan of the component. Most of the time, if you have an intermittent hardware problem with no seeming cause, its from ESD.

I had it running, then I would get the blue screen of death more periodically until eventually it never turned on. I’m suspecting a shit psu that came with the case.

could be a shit PSU, could also have been ESD. Intermittent failures leading up to a complete failure is a classic symptom of ESD, or underpowering. With underpowering, however, it probably would have kept turning on, especially once you replaced the PSU with a better one.

Could you get me a link to which RAM to use?

Vista is a perfectly functional OS that is far superior to XP in pretty much every way. The one issue you could raise about it is the increased hardware requirements, but the same was true of 98 vs XP. With 4gb of ram, it will be a nonissue.

Vista, especially if you’re getting 4gb of ram. x64 XP is garbage, which means you’ve gotta go x64 vista.

vista is filled with bugs. It’ll be good once SP2 hits

i don’t know. i don’t really see much better about vista than XP. i can’t really say it is worse, but i don’t see all that much of a big deal with it. i still think 64-bit Windows on a desktop is a joke since it is rare that someone is actually using that much memory (unless of course they have loads of garbage running in the background). for someone not too technical, i’d recommend just staying away from 64-bit winders.

fixed
Vista is an excellent OS. I would recommend it when building a decent machine. What I posted was a good machine.

People were saying that the 667 mhz RAM is kind of slow. I don’t know much about it, but is that true?

depends on the fsb of the cpu. What I posted works well together.

Alright, thanks.
So yeah, I think I’m going with that setup. Everything should be fine if those are all the parts that I order?
yes those parts work well together… of course if you’re not comfortable building it, then you should have a shop do it.
That’s what I was thinking.

I kind of just want to be able to do school shit and Flight Simulator and some other video games.

* sigh *

Don’t buy that P35 mobo, it’s old.
Get a P43 or P45. These are the latest chipsets.

I recommend Gigabyte.

Do you really need a quad core? If not, consider the E8400 dual core.

Seagate is good, but consider the WD6400AAKS which is faster and has more GB.

here’s a $5 off coupon code if you will buy through newegg: EMCAHCFAD

Get DDR2-800 ram. Price diff between 667 is just a few $.
Look at OCZ’s prices:
)

So then if you don’t mind would you link me to which motherboard and RAM would work together. That’s one thing that I was never able to understand.

And I think I might as well get a quad core so I don’t have to upgrade for a couple of years.
seagate > wd
intel > gigabyte
quad > dual for most users.

and faster memory doesn’t do shit if the fsb doesn’t match!

i’d take the Seagate if the price diff is huge, but not in this case
those WD6400AAKS are fast with 2×320GB platters, only SATA drives that could pwn it are the Raptors and Samsung F1s

we all know you love Intel, but why the hell would you recommend last years’ chipset?
just because your favorite brand doesn’t release their P43/p45 models yet?

he wants a quad, won’t debate that anymore

so why don’t you give him DDR2-533 then? that’s all he need for a 1066FSB CPU.

you are probably recommending this ram:

unless his mobo doesn’t support DDR2-800, he has no reason to get that instead of this:

$0.50 cents cheaper after rebates and being DDR2-800, he gets free overhead

That is a VERY ignorant question.

Instead, you should be wondering why Intel doesn’t release a board with their own hot new chipset. Perhaps it’s not ready yet???

wtf are you talking about? Intel launch the chipset last month
the delay of Intel brand mobo is foxconn’s production problems

I don’t really care what mobo brand you prefer (just don’t get ECS ), pick the mobo with the features you want/need (# of PCI slots, USB, SATA ports, Firewire, etc) that fits your budget.

If you do want my opinion,… any of these P43/P45 mobos is what I recommend.

I’ve also heard good feedback from MSI’s P43/P45 boards so you might want to check them out too.

that OCZ DDR2-800 ram is fine and should work with those mobos

ignore the negative reviews on newegg, most are about OCZ’s fucked up rebate (the rebate must be postmarked 12 days from purchase )

if you do have doubts about RAM compatibility,… you can check the manufacturer’s site for lists of compatible ram

let’s take this Gigabyte mobo for example:

Gigabyte’s site

RAM compatibility lists

How does FSB relate to ram speed? My guess is you have to be able to divide FSB/Ram speed and ge ta whole number or something of that sort?

Intel’s FSB are quad pumped
Conroe 1066 / 4 = 266mhz
Penryn 1333 / 4 = 333mhz

now look at this chart, note the bus clock,…
DDR2-400 = 100MHz memory clock, 200MHz bus clock, 400mil DT/sec, peak transfer rate of 3200MB/s
DDR2-533 = 133MHz memory clock, 266MHz bus clock, 533mil DT/sec, peak transfer rate of 4266MB/s
DDR2-667 = 166MHz memory clock, 333MHz bus clock, 667mil DT/sec, peak transfer rate of 5333MB/s
DDR2-800 = 200MHz memory clock, 400MHz bus clock, 800mil DT/sec, peak transfer rate of 6400MB/s
DDR2-1066 = 266MHz memory clock, 533MHz bus clock, 1066mil DT/sec, peak transfer rate of 8500MB/s

easier way is just to divide RAM speed by 2 (DDR2-800 / 2 = 400 )

cpu and ram bus should be in sync to avoid wait states
so, if you have a Penryn cpu (333Mhz), you will need DDR2-667 (333MHz) minimum
anything below that, RAM will be a bottleneck.

the advantage of getting faster ram is the overhead, either used for future upgrades or overclocking.
lets say i raised my FSB to say 356MHz,…
since DDR2-667 is slower than that (333MHz), I need to oc the ram.
since DDR2-800 is faster than that (400Mhz), I don’t need to oc it.
I need a book to understand what all this shit means.

thanks doom. good knowledge to have. i wish i knew that a few years ago. i usually just bought the average speed ram at the time.

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why would you get an SLI mobo?

you’d be paying for something you don’t need/will not use.
plus the fact that Intel chipsets are more stable than nvidia’s.

stick to P43/P45
get a Radeon 4850, it’s better
you don’t like the OCZ DDR2-800 I linked? It’s cheaper than the Patriot

The reason I chose that 8800 was because of the warranty that it comes with. And the other two things I didn’t know much about.

ok, if that’s what you want.
EVGA, XFX, and BFG offers lifetime warranties

fyi, the new 9800GT are out

i haven’t researched their difference between the 8800GT yet, but specs and prices are pretty similar. I think Nvidia just renamed them.

again, ditch the SLI board,… get a P43/P45 mobo.
I wish I wasn’t so spontaneous. I already ordered all of that stuff but now the more you post, the worse I feel about my decision.

k, i’ll shut up now.
enjoy your rig.

I mean I don’t think I’ll need any more PCI slots, so other than taking up more room, is there a negative to having the SLI spot? You can be honest.

takes space and you paid for an unused feature. that’s it.

imo, you might as well use it if you still have the $$.
fyi, that Corsair power supply on your list is powerful enough to handle two 8800GT for SLI.

if you think you ever might use SLI, then it might be a good deal, otherwise…. how much of a difference in price was it from a comparable, non-sli board?

Thanks, I’ll wait to see how much more money I’m going to make before going back to school.

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Any reccomendations on a new monitor? Looking for something in the 22" range without built in speakers

thanks in advance
Viewsonic, I have been buying their monitors, mainly the VG models for the last 8 years and never had a problem or have a monitor break.

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-E8500 3.16ghz core 2 duo
-Asus P5Q-E
-Thermaltake 600w PSU
-Corsair 4gb memory
-Samsung 22x dvd burner
-Zalman 110mm 2ball CPU cooler
-Antec 900 case
-Evga 8800GTS (have)
-Soundblaster ct4760 (have)

-2x Samsung 2253BW

Ordering this stuff (zipzoom) + CPU cooler (amazon w/ a rebate) + case (newegg) on Monday, then the monitors as I get the money. I’ll be using my old 19" panel until then.

Oh forgot a couple things.

I’m going to use an 80 gig HD that I’ve already got for the OS/program files and I’ll purchase a 500-750 gig HD for media. I’m getting vista from some discount program my school has. I think that’s it.
if it was me, I’d switch to a gigabyte motherboard and get some faster ram, DDR2-8500, also not a fan of thermaltake power supplies, I’d switch to one of the ones from corsair, ocz or pc power & cooling.
Anything specific wrong with the PSUs?

Is the mobo thing just a brand preference? I’ve heard good things of the asus boards

Jumping up to the pc2-8500 ram is a pretty big price difference for the same amount of memory, this is a budget build so I really had to keep price in mind.
I’m still between the e8500 (3.16ghz duo) and the q6600 (2.4ghz quad).

Is there really a big enough difference? Will it help run AutoCAD smoother/faster? Price is almost identical on the two so that’s not the real issue there. I guess I just don’t know enough about the differences
I’ve got a quad and haven’t played around with duals enough to be able to compare properly. But mine really handles everything I throw at it really well, struggles with say 4 VMWares running, but that’s more a RAM problem as I’m only using 2GB.

I just think you have more room for move with a quad Either way you’ll be happy I’m sure.
I’d really like to know the deal on quad core. Are more cores of less ghz better than less cores of great ghz?

I was under the impression that most progs don’t use four cores.

multi-threaded apps will utilize all 4 cores using a single memory context. so here, quad is better.

single threaded apps will only see 1 core. here, you’d be better off with faster clock speed and more ram.
I’d still take a Q6600 over a E8?00. It will do better in apps like that and will still rape any game you throw at it.

Which would be better for something like AutoCAD? I was pretty much wondering what that other guy asked. Is it worth it to take a .76ghz drop for the two extra cores on that program? I really don’t plan on doing much gaming at all

an overclocked quad

What can I safely OC that q6600 to?
3.0ghz is easy
most people reach 3.2-3.4ghz
3.6ghz and above needs improved cooling, tweaks, etc.

of course there’s no guarantees. it will all depend on your cpu, mobo, and ram.
AutoCAD is partially multithreaded. Not 100% of it is, but you should see significant performance gains using a quad core vs dual core with it in some tasks.
Ordered the case, cpu cooler, and a spare fan today. The rest tomorrow

I think I’m going to go ahead with the q6600 and OC it to ~3.2 or so.
I believe autoCAD only benefits from multiple processing cores when rendering using Mental Ray, which is multi-threaded.

I’d probably still get the quad though.
Yea, I’m going to go ahead with the quad core since I’ll be able to OC it over 3.0.

I ended up picking one of the monitors up today as well, I’ll get the second with my next paycheck. Originally I was just going to use my shitty 15" monitor until I could get both at once, but I decided to say screw it and picked one up.

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