OS X: no thank you.

you don’t say?
haha whatever, half the ISPs out there havn’t patched yet
OS X Server sucks. Everyone knows this. Its a niche product, and you shouldn’t rely on it unless you have a really good reason.

Fortunately there is Linux. Or Solaris.

The desktop OS has 1% of the problems of Windows. I know that burns, but its true. Which is why you recommend OS X to people.

B b b ut you have a COMPLEX over that fact! OH NOES!

my win-based dns server was patched, negro. good thing i wasn’t using os x!

Yes. Because noone says that Mac OS X Server ‘Just Works.’

In fact, it JUST SUCKS.

But its not the same product as the desktop OS, is it?
yawn. who cares? who uses OSX server anyway, especially for running something like DNS? and don’t you all realize that this kind of shit is a constant for Winders and has been for years? Windows is a server OS that gets used quite often, yet i’m certain that it has tons of gaping holes just waiting to be exploited right now. shit, that’s why every install of Windows, both desktop and server, needs tons of 3rd party software to help plug the security holes. you need personal firewalls and all kinds of virus/adware/spyware/malware scanners to keep Windows alive and well. oh, and now you’ve found one real flaw for a barely used version of OSX for a job that no one in their right mind would use OSX for? good job.
Apparently the patched BIND isn’t stable on OS X Server, so they’re sort of stuck for the moment.
This is just the Apple attitude towards security on all of their products and YOU ALL KNOW IT.
Name another instance of this happening, and you might have an argument.

You got starry eyes, my friend.

According to secunia: still not fixed

I believe I’ve lost the blog post where the hacker (who discovered this flaw iirc) discussed Apple’s attitude to security on the whole, and they are useless to sum-up.
There’s also an unpatched flaw with ARD agent that allows arbitrary code to execute as root without authentication. Apparently, Apple has known about it for over a year without releasing a patch.

that’s the flaw that trojan exploits.

apple has not got security right.

but at least they look purdy
(for rape)

Haha. They’ve known about it for 4 years.

I forgot the old thread we had about this that got derailed & locked. (actually I remembered it, but I can’t search the forums since I have no sub. However, Firefox 3’s amazing history search came to the rescue)

Satisfied with your ‘other instance’ Peyomp?

If not, I would say to you 1. you are a careless dumbass as bad as apple and 2. google apple opener. It shouldn’t come to that.

Stay safe.

mac-hacking: just works.
i’d just like to see examples of Mac’s getting compromised. i’m sure every single person here has anecdotal evidence of Windows PCs being wrecked by adware, spyware, viruses, trojans and the like. Now, Apple computers are getting to the point where most of us should know a few people who are running OSX. Let’s hear the actual evidence of people getting their OSX computers fucked up due to any sort of malware. so far all you have posted is hypothetical, possible, someone could, maybe, might hack a vulnerable mac and thus used that to claim that OSX is insecure.

how about this? how about one of you finds a few examples of compromised systems? you can use the internet to find some anecdotal info. go ahead.

i’ll start. it isn’t completely current, but it is recent enough… your turn.

You’re a system admin. You know that the bridge from possible to actual is just effort and ambition. Proof-of-concept is absolutely enough.

Would you feel better if I used the ARD exploit to run a "Hello World" app on all the Macs on my campus? How about I add a dozen lines of code that send an email to an address. How about I have them all send a thousand emails to an address? Maybe I download some plist files and fuck up all the program settings?
Its not "if." Its when.

it’s been around for a year. when?

proof of concept isn’t enough when you can compare it to the real world of Windows.

People have gone into Apple stores and wrecked havoc on their insecure machines. (some Apple stores have manually fixed one or two of the, er, zero days)

I can tell you: If Apple doesn’t get their act together OS X, sir, will be fucked. The introduction of the iPhone could be OS X’s downfall, or Apple’s. Because they are fooking useless.

If Mozilla had this attitude it would be the same situation for them. It’s not about market share numbers (they come into target appeal obviously), it will ultimately come down to the attitude and the CARE. And it looks like OS X is doomed.

Apple have a lot of work to do, but further, they have to get their priorities right.

Proof of concept is a good indication of what would or could happen if OS X ever had the target appeal of Windows.

hmm… this sounds MUCH worse than that DNS problem. it is a Vista vulnerability that theoretically can’t be fixed because it is inherent to the architecture of Vista.

I heard the day it was patched. What’s your point lol?

As for Windows. I would never have called Microsoft security minded, but the last few years I feel they’re fighting back (often at the user’s expense). Not that I use it or follow it much.

I know one thing: and that is that the number one thing about a product being secure isn’t even market-share, it is effort and care. Firefox has about a quarter the market-share of IE or more. You do not want to see the day that OS X has a quarter of the market share of Windows. If Apple weren’t to change how they treat security issues, they would probably be sued for negligence 157 times.
The point is that you guys were grilling them for not patching it, and they finally did. Which is somewhat relevant to the discussion, isn’t t?

Yeah.

And the point of the article is: they were significantly slower than everything else.

But mostly, what you will have learned, is that apple sucks with regards to keeping users safe.

/thread, just let the thread die, it’ll hurt less and you can go on to pimping OS X up as easy & highly-commend apple in just a little while.

actually, that wasn’t what i got out of this thread. what i got out of it was that a bunch of ignorant people harped about Apple not patching a rarely used feature of their rarely used OS… how many companies do you think are out there using OSX server as their DNS server? i’m sure the 5 people who do it in the entire world had some sort of workaround.

there are fanboys and haters, both sides are equally ignorant. then there are experienced users who are open minded and that’s what peyomp seems like. then there are the devil’s advocates who have no loyalties to any company and who just can’t stand the ignoramuses who find one completely retarded, meaningless thing such as a lack of a DNS server patch for OSX server and think that it means anything.

The problem isn’t that I’m pimping Apple. I would never use OS X Server. The problem is that you can’t tell the difference between two distinct products, and have an axe to grind.

Apples are ROTTEN. Therefore the oranges must suck too. Brilliant. Makes me want to use Ubuntu as my desktop. Oh wait, it doesn’t.
Did we not discuss another OS X exploit and Apple’s attitude to it?
ARD agent ring any bells?

The DNS patch is one instance typical of Apple. That is why the ARD agent flaw was brought up.

Typical. Except that they patched it in the end god love their effort
OS X. OS X Server. Explain the difference for us. You are unable to distinguish.

You point out problems with OS X Server, then trash OS X. Its not a logical argument, and is instead quite lame. Rather than being persuasive, you just come off like you have an axe to grind.

DNS Flaw on Server.
ARD Agent flaw on Desktop.

I don’t give a fuck about OS X and OS X Server: they are both Apple and they won’t keep their users safe.

Let it go.
zOMG an exploit! OH NO what terrible OSes. You sound like you started reading security lists yesterday.

You sound like the head of Apple security

I cannot provide a greater insult wrt security. If you think of one do let me know.

Microsoft security in the 1990s? Maybe.

Privilege escalation is bad shit and should be fixed. Permission warnings to system logger should be understood and tackled if needs be. It’s been over 4 years and Apple have done nothing at all.

This is not good form. If you think it is.

Fuck I don’t read security lists. But if you could find a similar flaw that has been reported repeatedly to Ubuntu, Firefox, and other on-the-up software, and dealt with in such an unprofessional manner (operates ok? that just about sums it up for Apple) for over 4 years, with such dangerous exploits in the wild for how many months?, well then Apple has some friends at the bottom of the pile.

But there there is the fact that this isn’t even the exception for them.

You mac-heads are hard to talk to. This conversation is over. Apple security, you have the facts.

You don’t have much perspective on this. Its really not that big a deal. You KIDS are hard to talk to. You don’t have enough experience to contextualize.
Who the fuck uses apple desktops? I remember those things… there were 4 of them in the corner of my schools computer labs… segregated away from the 100 or so "normal" computers.

They always seemed lonely, so one day I went to use one… that lasted about 5 minutes.

It’s been probably 6 months since I have seen an apple computer… and I work as a software engineer and go to a tech school, well used to I recently graduated.
Who uses Apple desktops? Try… the top engineers at all the most exciting companies? Anyone building anything NEW and exciting? But yeah, not people like you.

hmm… so you spent 5 minutes with it and decided what? 5 minutes with something as involved as a computer OS really tells you nothing other than the fact that it is different.

apple is making more and more inroads to the technical communities every day. 2 years ago i didn’t know any of my peers who were using OSX. now, i know about 5. i also know 3 more people who use OSX, but 2 are design people and the third is someone’s parents. traditionally, i don’t think software engineering was apple’s target market.

LOL.

NO, Peyomp IS DEFO NO FANBOY!

"Anyone building anything NEW and exciting" uses Macs

Apple market share is minute and varies wildly from place to place. It is no surprise that some of you SEE PEOPLE WITH MACS EVERYDAY and some of you HAVEN’T SEEN A MAC IN SIX YEARS. These experiences don’t tell us anything new.

Of course, the 2% of computers users that use Macs are the top of the top, in everything they do.
I’m a fanboy… but you’re the one ranting and raving?

I’m pretty unemotional about my Mac. It is the best *nix notebook available, so its a no brainer that I own one. I would never use OS X Server, as it sucks. I’ve never had security issues with my Mac.

Meanwhile you’re name is piratepenguin… but I’m the fanboy?

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I’ve been in IT about 13 years or so now with about 4 years in PC type support (helpdesk and desktop), around 10 years in UNIX (HP-UX and Solaris) and about 4 years in storage (HP, HDS and EMC, midrange and enterprise across all three, and Brocade switches). there was obviously some overlap with these.
personally working with computers for about 15+ years now. actual employement in IT related field since ‘98. Done everything from basic computer repair to webpage design. Have a side business fixing computers on top of my full time job as a systems admin.

3 years of professional experience doing everything from building servers to specifying systems configurations to domain administration to software design to website development. (Small companies are good for covering a lot of ground quickly.) I have a BSSE in software engineering, based largely on the Bell Labs paradigm of formal up-front design (none of that "agile development" cart-before-the-horse BS), and I’ve been writing code for myself for 12 years.

as a sys admin, is your focus exclusively on one platform or another or are you touching on a number of technologies? for example, are you more into Windows, Linux or UNIX or do you end up working with all comers?
1 year as a field tech, 2 years in tech support, and ~ 12 years as a hardware enthusiast.

I find too much of what you just said, unbelievable, as you seem to be totally dumbfounded on some of the most basic things you have asked in these forums.

My core competency is software engineering. Everything else is stuff I picked up along the way.

i wouldn’t say that. 3 years doing everything under the sun means no time to really focus on any one area. lots of breadth, very little depth. this type of experience means you can talk generically about a lot of topics, but when you need to go more than surface deep you’ll tend to hit a wall.

how old are you? in case you’re wondering, i’m 33 or so. i stopped paying attention after my son was born and forgot what age i was back then. he’s 17 months old. i think i aged 26 months in the last 17.
I’m a senior CS major, focusing on Software development.

Still getting my feet wet at the moment, and trying to do as much as possible. Right now my focus has been on web stuff, as currently it’s paying the bills for me.

Were most of you guys CS majors, IT type majors, or did you just pick it up on your own and roll with it? Any of you guys go for post BS educations; IE masters/phd? I’ve been debating heavily on going that route, as I’ve always wanted my MBA.
Nah, I stopped at Bull Shit. I don’t really think I need More Shit just yet, and I certainly don’t need to Pile it Higher and Deeper.
No professional or school experience, just what I learn from online and read. For the past couple years I have been a free on-call tech support person for the church that my mom works at (their IT staff, yes they actually have a couple guys, to be frank is a bunch of idiots who have no clue what they are doing). For a little over 10 years, if not longer, I have been a hobbiest (granted for part of that I was too young to do much). I think I made my first website when I was 13 and a stupid joke virus when I was 14 (not sure on the ages) but I’m 24 now.

I currently work for an external storage company as a price analyst. That’s what we do at the location I work at. I will finally graduate college in December with a degree in accounting.
my experience is pretty much nothing more than what you get having computers as a hobby for a few years i don’t know shit about shit other than standard hardware.
I’m with thebox on this, mainly just the standard hardware because I’ve been building computers and upgrading them for the past several years. As for programming I know what one semester of CS and one semester of MIS will teach you minus what 3 years of business college will make you forget.

i was a CS major, but went into the system side instead of development or any kind of programming. so, while i’m glad i got my degree, i wouldn’t say CS in particular did too much for my career other than getting me used to messing around in UNIX while trying to do my programming assignments. though, i got my PC desktop support job specifically because i had some basic UNIX experience. my boss was the existing UNIX admin and wanted out of the technical side of things. so, she hired me for showing some knowledge and interest in the subject. i didn’t have my degree yet though.

i have 0 interest in anything beyond my BA (i don’t even have a BS) as i’ve been pretty successful with what i have. hell, i was making more money without a degree than some of my friends are making many years later.
mostly self taught but recently went back to school and got my associates of applied sciences in ‘networking and convergence technologies’
will be going to UW in the spring time for a bachelor’s in CS. i’ve been a TA in large Microsoft / Cisco lab classes
helping students troubleshoot their routers and servers while i was assistant to the network admin for my school,
oftentimes correcting things and implementing solutions he never even thought of. I’m 23 now and have been operating computers
since I was in the kindergarten when I would program games on our old Commodore64. Fuck i miss playing ‘grog’s revenge’.
Most of my hardware and software programming skills are still self taught even though i went to school,
i was always more of the teacher’s assistant than actually a student.
Been working on my own projects and fixing things for friends forever now.
Looking forward to securing my first IT job in the nearby future

i plan on getting my masters as i only have 1.5 years left for my bachelors and still have 4 years of GET credits leftover to spend.
(guaranteed education tuition)
I’ve been messing with computers since I was 14 or 15. I’m 28 now. Got a BS in Information Technology from college, but I’ve learned most of the computer stuff on my own. I’ve been a Network Admin at my job going on 6 years. I’m a Windows guy…
8 years as a computer operator. I have experience with the AS/400 as well as an older IBM system we got rid of 5 years ago.
HP 3000 experience, a tiny tiny bit of Unix experience.

As a hobby I have studied networking. I took a year long CISCO CCNA course, but was unable to pass the testing.

I have an A+ cert and many years of hobby PC building and repair.
I’m going to be starting Comp Engineering classes on THIS Monday (gonna be a sophmore). I plan on doing a minor in Economics and an MBA, and maybe another Masters after that. People tell me that it worked out well, because I got to skip the BS classes Freshman have to take since I had credits to fulfill them. I haven’t taken any of the Engineering classes yet but am done with Calc 2 and Physics 1. I also plan on getting my A+ certificaton soon.

I’ve been playing with Computers since I was little. It’s funny though – if I didn’t go on porn sites as a kid, I probably would never have learned the basics about temporary internet files, cookies, etc, etc. That’s where I started learning stuff (beyond basic use of computers), and I kept learning all throughout high school. Built my first computer about two years ago and have been reading here and there about anything tech related since then.

Also took a bunch of CS classes in high school since 9th grade. I can code a little on the intro level in VB/C++/Java, and I was actually one of the best in the class (not to be pompous), except I don’t really have a desire to learn coding on my own, unless I think of a cool program to write. I really prefer a classroom setting and having the topics verbally explained to me instead of reading about them, which kind of sucks. It’s annoying to have to look up stuff online when sometimes I’m not evne sure it applies to the type of thing I’m trying to do in my program.

And you are probably smarter than most of the techs I end up dealing with just by being self taught. I am an in-house tech/administrator for an insurance software company and deal with idiot techs who know little to nothing about setting up a simple workgroup for 4 computers, let alone install antivirus.
bs in computer engineering

9 years in IT

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